Nintendo 64

[Jason-RN]

I still play my N64 from time to time. In fact, my friend and I played Star Fox 64 and GoldenEye a few weeks back. And when I get a Wii, I'm sure that I'll be playing a ton of N64 games on the Virtual Console that I never had a chance to pick up (Paper Mario comes to mind).

[Richard-RN]

No offense to Pilgrim John, but if you have SSB: Melee, don't even bother with the 64 version. People who say it is better usually just SUCK at Melee because the base speed is about twice as fast. Nintendo "mixed up" Melee's gameplay quite a bit. Its amazing how much more you can pull off in that game compared to the 64 version, especially with the air-dodge and a couple of other neat additions (link's hookshot being used to get back on the edge comes to mind).

[Pilgrim John]

richardrn said:

No offense to Pilgrim John, but if you have SSB: Melee, don't even bother with the 64 version. People who say it is better usually just SUCK at Melee because the base speed is about twice as fast. Nintendo "mixed up" Melee's gameplay quite a bit. Its amazing how much more you can pull off in that game compared to the 64 version, especially with the air-dodge and a couple of other neat additions (link's hookshot being used to get back on the edge comes to mind).

Of course it's twice as fast as the 64 game. It was released on the much more powerful Gamecube.
As for the mixing up, I only counted a few new things in the gameplay: the hookshot, air dodging, thrown-item catching, B Smash manuevres, and trophy-collecting. Well that, and they added so much more content that it dwarfed its predecessor considerably. That's the danger of sequels sometimes: if it ends up being better than the prequel, there's the chance that it might diminish the enjoyment of the first game. I can enjoy any and all Mario games because, while they got better over the years, they were each different from each other and innovative. But with Starfox 64 and Melee, they just added roughly 18 layers of chocolate to the already-delicious cake (Which isn't a totally bad thing), which made us look at the "smaller" cakes (SSB1 and Starfox on SNES) and turn our noses at them.
But yeah, if you understood all that, you get the idea. A "MORE MORE MORE" sequel can be a good thing (SSBM and Starfox 64), or even a bad thing (GTA: San Andreas and Madden '07). Me, I prefer "Difference and Innovation" sequels. But, that's just me.

[Richard-RN]

I don't understand your logic at all. So...because SF 64 and SSB Melee were such AWESOME games, they fall into a "trap" because they diminish the enjoyment of their predecessors? Pilgrim...the POINT of making a sequel is to make something better (well, some RPGs are exceptions...they have sequels for story purposes). Sure the SNES Starfox and N64 SSB were INCREDIBLE for their time...but their sequels are clearly superior in almost, if not every way. I don't mean to undermine your opinion, but it makes little sense to me. If you prefer difference and innovation sequels, what would you have in mind for the SF and SSB series?

[ruben_gamer4life]

zer0 said:

richardrn said:

No offense to Pilgrim John, but if you have SSB: Melee, don't even bother with the 64 version. People who say it is better usually just SUCK at Melee because the base speed is about twice as fast. Nintendo "mixed up" Melee's gameplay quite a bit. Its amazing how much more you can pull off in that game compared to the 64 version, especially with the air-dodge and a couple of other neat additions (link's hookshot being used to get back on the edge comes to mind).

Of course it's twice as fast as the 64 game. It was released on the much more powerful Gamecube.
As for the mixing up, I only counted a few new things in the gameplay: the hookshot, air dodging, thrown-item catching, B Smash manuevres, and trophy-collecting. Well that, and they added so much more content that it dwarfed its predecessor considerably. That's the danger of sequels sometimes: if it ends up being better than the prequel, there's the chance that it might diminish the enjoyment of the first game. I can enjoy any and all Mario games because, while they got better over the years, they were each different from each other and innovative. But with Starfox 64 and Melee, they just added roughly 18 layers of chocolate to the already-delicious cake (Which isn't a totally bad thing), which made us look at the "smaller" cakes (SSB1 and Starfox on SNES) and turn our noses at them.
But yeah, if you understood all that, you get the idea. A "MORE MORE MORE" sequel can be a good thing (SSBM and Starfox 64), or even a bad thing (GTA: San Andreas and Madden '07). Me, I prefer "Difference and Innovation" sequels. But, that's just me.

i think he is trying to say that the more you add more characters to the games but if you add TOO many things (I.E. serect movies, moves etc....) than you can screw it up the game because you all ready have to worry about unlocking characters than now you have to worry about other things correct me if I'm wrong pilgrim John.

[Richard-RN]

You shouldn't be "worrying" about additional moves that deepen the gameplay, you should be embracing them. The ability of Link and Samus to use their hookshot/beam to get up on the edge, the air dodge, and the item swipe all add a tremendous amount of depth to the game that wasnt in the 64 version. SSB:Melee is what a true sequel should be: similar gameplay with a couple new features, and TONS of new unlockable content/characters.

[Pilgrim John]

richardrn said:

You shouldn't be "worrying" about additional moves that deepen the gameplay, you should be embracing them. The ability of Link and Samus to use their hookshot/beam to get up on the edge, the air dodge, and the item swipe all add a tremendous amount of depth to the game that wasnt in the 64 version. SSB:Melee is what a true sequel should be: similar gameplay with a couple new features, and TONS of new unlockable content/characters.

You've got a good point, but SSBM and Starfox 64 were both "MORE MORE MORE" sequels. Like I said, that isn't a bad thing--after all, both games are in my Top 20 Games of All Time List. But me, I like fresh, original ideas along with sequels that change the way the series is played while at the same time staying true to its roots.
But yeah, we're getting off-topic again.